Wednesday I was ordering the 1500mm c-beam and all the stuff to convert the x-carve into a 1000 x 1500mm machine.
But if the c-beam is not going to be any stronger then I’ll have to go back to the drawing board.
Then again everything to convert to a 1500mm wide is less than $200 shipped so i might try it anyway.
All this focus on the x axis extrusion stiffness. The biggest problem is the Delrin wheels. They contribute allot of torsional flex. If you get out the dial indicator I think you will find that this is the larger problem. After, the extrusion mod look at the wheels. The choice for increased stiffness is to go to metal wheels. If metal wheels are used then everyone says the extrusion will be destroyed. ( I have 40 hours on metal wheels and no signs of wear) So then go to metal rails. The price is going up. With the c beam the wheels are cantilevered out more. Is this a problem? I have no experience. With the c beam additional wheels can be added to distribute the load. Eight on the inside and 8 on the outside. Will this give the needed stiffness? The next step up is a thick Al plate with mounted rails and ball blocks. Then lead screws or ball screws. We bought the x carve for price but want the performance of a 6000$ plus cnc router. Can’t have it both ways.
Hmm.
The Maker Rail setup is effectively 40mm x 40mm beam so a 40mm circle?
The C-beam is effectively a 40mm x 80mm beam. So would that be a 40mm circle or a 80mm circle?
Assuming it is an 80mm circle, does that mean it will be significantly better at resisting torsion?
And is that increase in righty linear (twice a big is twice as strong) or multiplicative? (twice as big is (x) times as strong)
Even after they are bolted together?
So it is the smallest width, not the biggest? Then the c beam will not be much better that a square.
Though the sold wheels and the ability to add more (inside track and outside track) should be a huge improvement with any wheel flex issues.
Solid vs hollow. Maybe you know the answer. I was toying with the idea of filling the rails with resin to see if that would haven any improvement with “stiffening” them up in regard to rotation.
Working with the premise that any material would improve rigidity. The question being would it be enough to make a noticeable improvement?
Looking at smooth on products there are several to choose from. But no clear “Strongest” one. So I am trying to figure out which would be best for this application. In regard to torsion what specification is most important, Flexural Strength or Compressive Strength?
I really DO wish they’d do something about the gantry, myself. Wouldn’t even have to be much, just supply some joining plates to be installed during the gantry build or something like that. Or at least make mention of it during the build process, since it seems to be something that basically everyone needs to address at some point with the DeWalt mounted instead of the original spindle, and it’d be a LOT easier to do during the build when you didn’t have to pull stuff apart to improve it.
I’ve seen mentioned that they’re at least going to address the eccentric nut issue, which will be a big improvement on the adjustability front, anyway!
I can appreciate both the DIY & cost perspectives. However, access to machinery & space for such modification can be quite prohibitive.
Therefore, at least providing a test run of part upgrades on the part of the manufacturer would be a fair option.
We receive the opportunity to pay for a solution upgrade, their brand grows more reliability for their followers, and the brand also receives the numbers to support whether such upgrades are in high demand a purchasable solutions.
Ignoring demand in the market frustrates current and future customers/clients.
You’re saying Inventables is failing to address the market by not offering ready-to-go machine features/parts/upgrades that many people do or want to do to their own machines? Because these upgrades are apparently so universally wanted, if not necessary, that it makes it seem that the stock X Carve is handicapped our of the box?
I don’t think Inventables should feel obligated to do so, but for the reasons I mentioned an hour ago I can see how it could be frustrating to someone. I don’t know what the failure rate was for the original 24VDC spindle, but it was apparently high enough that Inventables did something really cool: they did refunds, offered to replace spindles or repair them, etc. Then they took that spindle out of their product completely because it failed too much. Then look at the limit switch wires. What if the failure rate, due to noise, for homing sequences with the stock unshielded wires was 5%? Or 10%? If I fell into that group of people, I’d probably feel like I was sold a machine that didn’t do what it claimed to be capable of: completing a homing sequence. In the same way, now that Inventables is selling X Carves that use routers almost exclusively, I feel that their claim of being capable of machining plastics isn’t quite as true as it used to be, because of a much higher minimum RPM. Of course you can crank up feedrate, but the results won’t be exactly the same. So Angus, while I agree that the X Carve is certainly sold as a machine that’s meant to be flexible enough to upgrade should you want to, I can also understand a person being upset should they find they need to.
I agree that the stiffening mod isn’t necessary for the machine to perform the Inventable’s claims. And @PhilJohnson, I also agree with you that there’s nothing to be gained by b****ing in the forums when something goes wrong. If anything, an email to Inventables support is much more useful. They are good people and they try to make their customers happy. I was just playing a little devil’s advocate on a slow Monday at the office 
Eh. Biting isn’t cool, because it doesn’t help you or anyone, but Inventables also is not feeding anyone- they’re a business. You buy a product with expectations and if those expectations aren’t met people will be upset.
Anyways, we’ve gotten way off topic. My vote is 60 minute stiffening mod. It reduced my gantry’s flex visibly.
I just got back in and read up on the thread.
Reading back (curious about the claim on swearing), I saw that one of my comments was flagged.
If it was for the aforementioned “swearing”, then I sincerely apologize to the both the members of the forum, and to the Inventables team.
Regardless of my positions on these matters, there would have been no excuse for such behavior.
I like the X-Carve. I wanted to learn about Desktop CNC and didn’t have enough knowledge about the topic to build one. I think I could now, but I truthfully haven’t exceeded the limitaions of my XC yet.
That being said, I recommend adding the stiffening spine between the X-Axis rails. I used 3/16" aluminum, instead of steel, because I liked being able to cut it to exact dimensions using a carbide blade in my table saw. It has provided 2 noticeable improvements to my XC - there is much less flexing of the Z-Axis, and creating a solidly joined square slide assembly has made the gantry plate attachment much more solid.
I think going to a 40 x 40 slide without first trying the machine out as-shipped might be a bit of premature optimization. It might be best to assemble the machine with one of the stiffening mods talked about in the forum and then find out the machine’s limitations.
I upgraded to the 40x40, love the single-piece construction. What I am not able to do however is provide concrete evidence that the 40x40 is stronger than the previous 2-piece design and the drop-in bolts mod that I did.
Does it feel stronger? yeah.
A lot? can’t really quantify “a lot” from “a little” 
I am upgrading the Z axis next to linear, but that’s because I plan to raise the machine slightly like @ErikJenkins did with his new custom-built Y axis end plates, and upgrade from the DW611 to a DW618 so I can use something like the Musclechuck to change bits. Changing bits in the DW611 I always seem to move the carriage, even with the motors powered up.
If I had any gripe about the Xcarve it would be that it now takes up all my time … but it’s the least expensive of my hobbies now
@PhilJohnson - Agree 100%. I’ve had more than my fair share of issues with V wheels on the Z. I’m thinking the OpenBuilds 500mm linear kit using C beam might be a good option for only $109. I’ll prob cut it down a little, after I raise the Y axis end plates so my bit can still reach the wasteboard…
Hoping to start on that mod after I get thru this latest batch of stuff that’s already been paid for.
I’m getting dangerously close to needing a second machine…
6 lbs is pretty heavy for the z-axis.
Check out the $109 C-Beam style, looks very similar except for the fact that the wheels ride on the inside.
Plus it’s $300 cheaper…
I guess I need to go learn more about linear rigs so I can actually compare the 3… Well, actually the 2, I don’t wanna spend the $400, but $100-$150 is in my price range.
And there it is… yep, that was the obvious bit I was missing.
So, now, for the $1,000,000 question. None of that configuration looks like something that would be impossible to mill out of aluminum on the XC…
obviously anti-backlash nut and the acme would need to be purchased, along with the rod adapter, but this really looks like something that the XC could do MOST of. Might need a drill press for the rods and press fit the bearings… missing anything?
I would guess it’s a do-able project, but for $150 I’m not sure it would be worth the money to DIY it.
I have a piranha fx and the bearings on slides what I have for a z axis I’ll post pics here shortly I don’t have any flex whatsoever on that machine however on my xcarve that acme screw will make the whole z axis flex if there was some kind of bottom plate to help keep that from moving that would definitely stop the flex period
