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@RobertCanning I for one will be sorry to see you go. As a person who has received helpful advice from you in the past and someone who has been inspired by your projects I would like to sincerely thank you for all your time, input, and patience. This same sentiment extends to numerous other members in the forums. We may be silently lurking but we’re absorbing the sage advice and admiring your abilities.
My hope is that any future improvements (FAQ, moderation, etc.) can help prevent driving away valued members. These members and the content they provide are the only reason I tune into the forums.
I’ll add my recent thoughts and grievances about the forum. I don’t want it to be overly long so i’ll use bullet points. Discuss however you like.
Popular members don’t necessarily make good moderators. Community vote may not be the best solution.
In order to make the forum great again, we all need to start with ourselves. It seems like everybody wants ‘other members’ to change behaviour, but fail to see their own part in the problem. Practice what you preach.
Before any moderation is needed, people need to chill out. There’s too much attitude going on. Any form of disagreement or critique is immediately met with personal attacks and replies to get the hell out of the thread. It’s a DISCUSSION forum. Not an AGREEMENT forum. People should be allowed to say their thoughts when done so respectfully. Some users have been feeling insulted for no reason at all, making any random topic very toxic within the matter of a few posts. Stop taking everything so personal and open up to alternative opinions.
When a new member is involved, he’s quickly ganged up on by several veterans. I’ve seen it happen multiple times recently. This ‘gang’ mentality needs to stop. I’ve also already had several people PM’ing me saying they agree with me in some random discussion, but don’t want to publicly state that in fear of the backlash. Whatever the discussion, this is not the climate I want on this forum.
The flagging system is not a personal censoring tool. It should only kick in when a set number of members report a post.
I’m no saint myself, as some will know. No need to point out the irony
I agree with most of the ideas already proposed, but the moderators aren’t going to be the solution if the community remains to be the problem.
I really believe you are over thinking this - Points, Appeals, Moderator peer review? At the site I linked above none of this has ever been needed. Once rules are in place the community will quickly adjust to comply as it is in everyone’s interest to do so.
The site above actively has significantly better moderation tools. When a post is closed, it’s clear as to why. The site above has an active meta sub-forum where rules are discussed and clarified so they will be enforced consistently. Also, the system of people up-voting or down-voting a question or response IS a system of points. Not for banning purpose, but for reputation. Similiar, but not the same.
I think that’s a pretty good idea. Isn’t how forums were in the early days? Based on how long you were a member, the number of posts and/or the community rated content of your posts? Start as a novice, move through apprentice, journeyman, master, guru levels based on predefined criteria. Obviously, whatever level names the particular forum moderators chose…
Different forum software handles that better. There is a “tag line” that says “Newbie” or “Guru” or whatever. But, if you look at the new Inventables Community Guidelines, this goes against the inclusive part and is “profiling” new users…
Take a look at the Vectric forums. Post count is displayed on every post. Taglines are displayed on every post (Apprentice, Wizard, etc.).
Also, one more thing, this needs to be labelled what it is…a user/community forum. Again, look at Vectric, the link to their forums from their main page clearly states “User Forum” because that’s who contributes the most to it and the intent of it.
I believe some of what we’re seeing here is actually considered a “feature” of the Discourse forum. And maybe the lack of full implementation is the problem.
Discourse, as a software, puts a lot of trust into people being civilized and following rules, etc. What we’re seeing is that doesn’t always happen. That’s where moderation steps in.
Or, look at sites like Reddit. The up and down vote feature will auto hide posts that aren’t relevant based on community feedback. Stack Overflow is another great example of users up/down voting responses and essentially hiding the “trash”. They also are QUICK to make things as a duplicate and redirect back to the relevant topic.
personally, I think a company’s forum should be moderated by the company… they don’t let Joe Smoe off the street do inventory control. This forum is Inventables and should be moderated by someone paid by Inventables.
As far as the act of moderation, it is more up to the community to alert the Moderator that there is an issue and why it is seen as an issue. But an employee that checks the new posts a few times a day would probably see the issue arising before any notification anyways.
On a Hot Rod VW site that I helped moderate for years, when I would delete a post I would send the user a private message on why I did. it gave them a chance to word the post more appropriately.
Thanks though for having a great site to gather on.
“Take a look at the Vectric forums. Post count is displayed on every post. Taglines are displayed on every post (Apprentice, Wizard, etc.).”
For my two cents, I find the Vectric forums are exactly the type of forums I would NOT want Inventables to copy. I find them pretty much unresponsive and valueless.
I’m not saying copy everything. I was saying how it could be done for the idea concerning the icon showing a newbie.
It does change things when you see the person responding has a higher post count because that generally means more experienced and that it’s not another newbie.
I find that the discussion on this thread is starting to go around in circles like a dog chasing it’s tail.
There are two major issues that need to be discussed and resolved. They have been pointed out on this thread already but I will do it again for clarity. I see this as a cause and effect issue.
First Problem: No defined FAQ section that addresses the most commonly asked questions and offer solutions. I believe one needs to be done and personally think part of it should be a flow chart to help troubleshoot common problems.
Second Problem: No common sense moderation in place. We are all adults and need to act like one at all times. There are some of us, yes I am included, who are a bit more sarcastic and thick skinned than others on this site. There are also some who are concerned for the younger users who use the forum and do not want them, or themselves, exposed to the more adult content that is occasionally displayed. Moderation needs to be done in accordance to “community standards” and enforced uniformly.
Part of the problems I have seen all stem from searching or lack thereof.
The FAQ is a great place to start. As the success of the forum is a big tie to sales I recommend Inventables owning this piece upfront and then turning it over to the forum to keep it up to date.
With there being 2 models, firstly it should be separated. Never been on a forum with different models that had a common list of info. I get they are similar, but there are significant enough differences. The project and easel pieces can obviously stay shared.
New questions should have a verification process. The reason the search doesn’t work is the amount of redundant posts and in those the question not getting answered or linked to another. Those need to be cleaned up/removed.
Questions/subjects should be formatted in a way that can be easily captured into an FAQ.
Ex - Gen 2 machine chatter issues.
Details - post what has been tried etc. If it is a unique issue and they troubleshot, let it post. If not, it should be closed with a reference to review FAQ.
I have been around a ton of forums and they all start to fall apart when new comers aren’t held to the standards that they need to do some leg work.
I am newer so I am in that boat. I dig through everything even with as painful as the search can be on here.
I agree with the thought but I can’t even start to comprehend how and the amount of effort it would take to do this. Not sure of the total post count but it has to be massive. Personally, I would just allow them to stand BUT as others have suggested we do need a dedicated FAQs section. This needs to be kept very clean and any unnecessary post removed. Also, it would make it easier to locate and delete information that becomes out dated. Once developed it would become the search database of choice and yield much more pertinent information.
My suggestion would be start to archive and track activity. Move into hibernation if no visits to posts. This has to be in conjunction with a good FAQ. For the info don’t clear it, just move to like a junkyard that doesn’t pull up in the main search function, but still able to be found if need be.
Enforce the new posting policy for easy searching moving forward.
I have no real suggestions other than to continue to remain calm. I think passion for the craft is good, but there’s no reason to be emotional. The tone in the forum will follow the tone of the “regulars”, the “leaders”, the “popular”. @Zach_Kaplan, if I were you, I’d reach out to @WillAdams. He’s a moderator on the Shapeoko forum and a regular helper here. Although it doesn’t have quite the level of activity, that forum has a wealth of info, and a very positive vibe. I’m pretty sure Will also manages the wiki over there which I’m sure alleviates some common questions. Personally, I think some of the “basic” questions re-asked in this forum encourage more participation (when not met with emotion). If an experienced member doesn’t want to answer a question AGAIN, let one of the newer guys handle it. Someone that doesn’t have an X-Carve yet will be making awesome stuff regardless of who answered their questions.
Good luck!
I too am sad to see @RobertCanning go as I have read a lot of posts/projects he had posted and he had some valuable insight.
This forum is invaluable, the amount of information here is astounding(but yes often difficult to find/search).I had trouble finding the correct procedure on calibrating steps with GRBL. PhilJohnson directed me exactly to the right post on this forum with the video from Manhattan Wood Project.
Why was I unable to find it? I wasn’t searching for the correct phrase…seems obvious after I get the correct answer, but I was specifically searching for upgraded 9mm and steps, and then steps, and motors, and lots of other things just randomly guessing. Still have my training V-Wheels on… Even doing a clean search not remembering the exact phrase again, I found it - it was the 8th link down.
I see the post is in the Wiki, but being new to this I was not using the correct phrasing, or the search isn’t superb, or I should have gone to the wiki and looked harder myself, happy to admit that.
A more in depth FAQ section would be great!
BUT as a new user, without the help by various members here I would be totally lost.
Please and thank you go a long way. Be civil, as my father always says.
I am a newbie, nobody has bitten my head off here, everyone has been ridiculously helpful and patient.
I’ve lurked on these forums awhile, and the forums were the sales pitch to me and a major reason as to why I chose Inventables over many other options. The welcoming, helpful and active community is important. Seeing Zach, the CEO active on the forums, engaging and contributing and asking questions and helping others is awesome!
Zach - important must have for the new setup whatever it ends up being.
Signature - As an example, I have a 2017 X-Carve, X-Controller, CNC4newbies Z, upgraded 9mm belts/pulleys, etc.
This alone will help a lot. Knowing what machine a user has, wether modified or not, has to contribute greatly to less repeated questions and more accurate answers, right? I’ve seen it on other forums, and yes users often don’t fill out their signature, but people politely mention “hey, fill out your profile so we can assist you better”.
Another important feature.
Sections that are detailed/more specific.
Finishing section - many users have posted great tips on how to properly finish items created with the X-Carve.
That is again invaluable information, but it is often buried in unrelated posts somewhere, or as side note to someone who says wow, how’d you do that?
I’m also against all this info out there now going away, that’s not good either. Keep the old forums? transition all the old posts?
I’d love to see PDFs or even video AND PDFs with guides on such subjects, maybe similar to the $100 create a project. It takes a fair amount of time to create something like that, detail the steps etc. But truly nice guides, and there are many capable users here who can or have already done that. But a section specific to this would be great.
Sorry if the post is a little scatter brained, it’s how mine works.
Zach - the next absolute must have…
Getting started guide, with steps, videos etc.
After the machine is built, specific steps/Tutorials that a new user can go through.
Step 1 - Calibrating your steps with GRBL, each machine has different components, your belts, v wheels, etc may not be the same tightness/specs as another machine. A -detailed- walkthrough on configuring your machine before the first carve. User learns more about the machine, understands why this is being done, and is now more familiar and capable and has learned some/more of the terminology.
Step 2 - after calibration, basics of what/how/why the machine works.
Zero, work zero, home, something to familiarize what these terms mean and doing it to learn it.
Step 3 - Now carve the easel dude, but maybe more maintenance info other basics on the machine first. Stop button is here, why is it important? Basics yes, but if everyone went through the basics first it would surely cut down on a lot of the repeat questions?
Step 4 - Your first carve is going to be a ruler with numbers, in inches or mm to verify your machine on this first test carve has carved a 6" ruler with notches to measure easily with an actual ruler or tape measure. If it’s not, now you know from Step 1 how to go calibrate it with the guide that is available. Along with a circle, square, triangle, to see if steps are good in all axes axis’ axisies axis’s - hey wait the easel dude has all this… just to verify there’s nothing loose, that it is reasonably accurate etc. I think this would be a great thing to have, for everyone.
Step 5 - 10, not 1,2, or 3 but TEN specific projects to familiarize with what you can do with this machine, that overall teaches you the basics, and more.
A picture frame. Then the lesson continues, but wait, flip it over for 2 rabbets in the back(at different depths) for glass and to support your back pieces.
A simple sign.
A coaster.
A box.
Whatever the projects are, not saying they have to be what I mentioned above, it’s learning, it’s doing. And you progress to the next one.
10 projects that encompass what the Inventables staff and users in the forum think are the best projects for a new user to learn/grasp all the various aspects/capabilities of the machine. 10 from Inventables, 10 from the community. I know a lot of this does exist on the forum, but the difference between a projects section and this proposed Tutorial is that the tutorial projects are to familiarize a user with projects that also teach them to use the machine.
AND then when a user has run through all these tutorials, Easel can confirm they’ve gone through the beginner’s course, they get a badge. That would be fun, actually. And then some advanced courses. Building an LED backlit sign, complicated boxes, toys, games, there are so many projects.
Now you would have users who in a sense have received their X-Carve drivers license, and in theory, traffic will then be far more civilized.
But again, it’s structured, it’s 10 lessons that everyone has now gone through, like a drivers license, I’m on the road trusting you also have one too.
As an example.
Emblaser 2 Tutorials @ Darkly Labs - another neat place where the CEO is active in the community(I really think that’s awesome).
code.org has basic super beginner lessons, and you get a congratulations when you move the angry bird 2 steps right, 2 steps down, and one step left to get that awful pig. Yep I did the very beginner course and it was fun!
That is what should be created.
Oh and a quick note on moderators, fine, but not if they’re super scary abusive moderators who are power hungry(happens too often on forums, I’ve left a few forums after in some cases years of being involved as a productive member due to abusive moderators).
I couldn’t agree more with such an approach. As a new X-Carve owner, I would have certainly got up-to-speed (relatively speaking) more quickly with a much greater level of confidence to move on to bigger and better things.
For what it’s worth, your submission is “worth” a lot more than 2 cents!!!
I believe that Robert Canning should have the right to have every post deleted. He came here and posted answers to questions at his own free will in an effort to help others,
If he feels that betrayed then it is only right to let him leave in peace.
