Houston we have a problem! (intermittent spindle)

I have the same problem. A smack with a wrench gets it moving, but: Not sure on the speed. Also, when I give it a smack to to start, I notice a pretty good electronic arc(flash) in the top of the spindle. Sent a message to the help@inventables guys. Would also like to note that it seems to make odd noises, subtle but almost like bearings grabbing intermittently.


And last night.

This video shows a pretty good arc within the top of the spindle.

Forgive the Canadian accent and there may have been a few Whiskeys in the first video.

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Can’t say I noticed an arc and Maybe I was too focused on the bit. I only had to “tap”. You had to really knock it! I’m gonna reckon a guess that the new spindle I was sent, exactly like the first; won’t last either. :disappointed:

My bad. they are public now.


Seems like few have complained about spindles but there is always a few that fall through the QA cracks. I am just glad I saw the sparks and shut things down since I was dunking some 3d printed parts in Acetone right beside it. Can’t afford to blow my shit up

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Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. We’ve been in communication with the manufacturer and they want all the spindles that have issues back for analysis. If you haven’t contacted help@ yet please do and they will send you a shipping label and a replacement spindle. Please do not open the spindles prior to returning them. To do a proper analysis you only get one chance at opening them and if you do it then the manufacturer can’t do it in their Q/A lab. The owner of the spindle manufacturer read this thread last night and wrote me back:

"Judging by the comments on the blog, e.g., tapping the motor to get it started, I would assume that one of the poles has a broken wire. That would explain the low power & low RPM feedback. "

He also said:

“Typically on motors that experience high vibrations, or run at >18,000 RPM, we recommend using an very hard epoxy called ‘neck glue’ around the hooks of the commutator. See attached photos. Because your application is a spindle and should not have that high of vibration we did not previously recommend it. If indeed the motor failed because of a broken wire at the commutator hook, then I would recommend we start adding this glue to future orders.”

Below is a picture with and without neck glue for reference.

For those having problems did the problems come up the first time or after repeat usage when serious vibration could have been introduced?

@SeanKeplinger I looked up your case in our ticketing system and it looks like we responded at 10:46am on June 2nd. Can you confirm you got the email?

Thanks @Zach_Kaplan, I received the email shortly after I posted the follow up.

To answer the question above about usage: mine had been working fine for about 3 weeks. No major vibration aside from a bit spinning at 18k RPM through MDF.

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Ours has been running a couple/few hours a day for a week now - no problems. Just before this happened, I could hear the RPMs varying even though it appeared to be cutting fine at the time. I had not heard any variation whatsoever before then. It was shortly after that it just took off into raw material. We are cutting PC and only taking off .010" a pass, but there is still more chatter/etc than on MDF by far.

Mine started acting up after about 3 days, probably around 8 hours of cut time in MDF and Birch ply. It did have a few, probably 3 or 4, rough cuts driving to deep when it lost position a couple times before I increased the current to the steppers.

I think I have the same issue as well; except mine also burned a trace on the speed controller pcb (the lil board attached to the power supply). Everything was going good, I had about 10 hours total on the spindle when it lost all torque, you could stop it with your finger. Then the speed controller went byby as well. :frowning:

Email help@inventables and they will send you a new one. Please send back the original so we can send it to the lab for testing.

WOW!!! New speed controller and spindle arrived today. Great job inventables, I love you :smile:

Installed the new spindle and speed controller, but gpio on ardunio that controls pwm was fried as well; I’m thinking that optically isolating the FET on the speed controller is probably going to be necessary.

Pulled another ardunio out of the drawer and programmed it to use Grbl 0.9i. Now everything is once again happy except the RPM control seems different; if i send M3 S1000 I get 100% duty cycle. is there a different version of Grbl or some setting that I’m missing to make the PWM match the RPM?

Also; The new spindle does not have the neck glue either. Does this mean it may break again?

Hi Everyone,

We will take back 100% of the spindles for a full refund. While we figure out the root cause we can offer you:

A refund
A credit
A replacement
We are working with the manufacturer to figure out the root cause of the problem. In order for them to do the analysis they need the spindles back. We are providing return address labels to everyone affected but haven’t got any back yet. When we get them we will be sending them in for analysis as soon as we get them in.

In terms of other solutions our engineering team is working on some other low cost entry level spindle solutions but if you don’t have time to wait for that you can use the refund to order a Dewalt 6111, Dewalt 6601, Bosch Colt2, water cooled VFD spindle1.

You can also order a Quiet Cut 48V spindle but you will need a 48V power supply in addition to the 24V power supply you already had. We were trying to reduce from 2 power supplies to one which is what led us to the 24V spindle solution. The idea was this would be an improvement compared to the generic rotary tool. The 300W DC spindle solution is just that an entry level tool to get people started it is by no means the most powerful or capable spindle on the market. It is designed to be an entry level tool to get you going. We offer the option to select “none” in the configurator if you want to opt out of the entry level model and move straight into a more power solution.

The 48V spindle, is it this one that got rated very poorly 7 months ago?

Those 1.5kw water cooled spindles - has anyone verified they will fit in a 500/1000 X-Carve without bending it? They weigh quite a bit more than a bosch colt or dewalt DWP611. There’s a thread here somewhere where someone asks about mounting a different router than those two, and they were warned off because of the weight. This spindle weighs even more.

@JoeMeyer we have not had any reported problems with that spindle in our shop. I understand that the person that did this review noted the differences between an entry level spindle and an expensive one. We are trying to give options to people that don’t have big budgets. If you have bigger budgets there are lots of options available to you.

We have a water cool spindle running at Inventables with the VFD on the 1000mm machine in our shop. It uses the new mount that we will be releasing in about 4 weeks. We have not had any issues to date.

I posted this to the other thread but I wanted to make sure everyone saw it here too:

  1. You can send back any parts for a 100% refund.

  2. We currently have the [mount in stock for the Dewalt 660][1]

  3. We have ordered the mount for the 611 but it has not come in yet. We only have the prototypes which we have tested on the 1000mm X-Carve and it worked well.

The mount fits the 611
https://vine.co/v/e7A2OjBOEw9

and the Water Cooled spindle.
https://vine.co/v/eAE1KD6LdJT
[1]: https://www.inventables.com/technologies/dewalt-dw660-spindle-mount

I looked at the VFD water cooled unit posted on the other tread. That one is 220V; Is there a 110V water cooled unit?

Ya the one we have is 110. I search for another one.

Zach,

I haven’t had any problem with my spindle yet, but am concerned about all the post of issues. Are you recommending that the spindle replaced? I’d rather not have down time if it does go bad. Which 48v spindle are you recommending and which supply? Also would it need a new mount? and can the on off state still be controlled by Easel?

Thanks
Pete

Hi @psharley at this time we’ve had approximately 1.2% failure rate with the spindle. I’m not recommending the spindle should be replaced if you are not having problems. For people that are having problems I wanted to make sure that we are responsive and transparent. I also want to make sure they understand we are actively working on the problem.

The 48V spindle we sell in our store is the one we would replace the 24V with and it requires the 48V power supply we sell. The mount is the same. In order to control the state with Easel you also need the relay and speed control.

I want everyone to understand that if there is an issue we aren’t going to leave you hanging and our goal is to make sure each and every customer has success with our products.

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Zach - the manufacturer’s “glue” suggestion doesn’t make much sense. This is clearly an issue with bad bearings/design resulting in an inability to handle ANY axial load and lots of vibration. This causes the brushes to self-destruct (cracking, then chipping creating arcs, then no contact with the armature until tapped, and then, once the brushes crumble it is kaput. I have a pile of brush material sitting on my wasteboard. Thanks for all the research and due diligence but pursuing this type of spindle might be a waste of time. FYI - the my Dremel tool fits nicely into the stock spindle holder but it can only accept 1/8th bits. This might be a stop-gap for some customers.