VCARVE - EASEL Clarifications Needed

It’s most likely running in a mode which waits for response to each command.

I believe that most of the senders use the character counting method which would smooth things out.

That would explain the way it jogs. You cannot click 3 quick times on say X+, it will only move the value of one click. You have to wait until move is complete before it will accept another click

As Neil says the option is available when the software is first installed - see the screenshot below for Cut2D. If you have already installed your Vectric software, then re-running the latest installer from the Portal does no harm and you can check the option on the subsequent install to add VTransfer.

image

I should have pointed out some important points in the earlier post: VTransfer currently requires that Grbl must be in mm reporting mode ($13=0), hence only the X-Carve mm post supports the direct output method. This doesn’t affect your choice of units within VCarve - you can work in inches but still use the mm post. I think this is the cause of one of your issues @MarkA.Bachman? If you need to work with inch reporting then I’m afraid VTransfer isn’t going to work out for you. Similarly, if you are already manually setting G28, G30’s then VTransfer’s super-simple approach to coordinates (basically just one coordinate space from a single origin) is also going to be to simple for your needs. VTransfer’s current
origin setting will be setting these values as part of its normal operation and you are likely to clash - if you have the console running, you can see the commands that each button is issuing as you use them.

In general, if you have a successful streaming process already, then by all means stick with it. We provided VTransfer to get X-Carvers up and running who don’t have a streamer and simply want to create a toolpath, set the origin and stream the file -without the need for additional 3rd party software or an internet connection.

@NeilFerreri1 & @LarryM - I am very concerned about the choppy streaming performance as this is something we worked hard to eliminate during development. We are not using the simple response paradigm so the we should be streaming at near the buffer capacity all the time. Does the same toolpath always produce the choppy streaming - if so, would it be possible to send me the .gcode file? FAO Edward to support@vectric.com?

E

@EdwardPowell

I was coming at this issue from the grbl side of things.

What method are you using to prevent buffer over runs in grbl?

I am a licensed user of Vcarve PRO 8.5

This feature is not in my release so I can’t test it locally. If you need some help from the grbl side of things I might be able to help you track down this issue.

Thanks for the clarification @LarryM - it you do decide to upgrade to v9 and find that you are able to reproduce this problem with streaming performance, then please do drop me a line. I ran all of my recent Vectric UGM samples using VTransfer earlier this month (maybe 30+ hrs of machining in total) and did not experience any choppy performance. This week I will try a couple of different spec. PC’s here (with different versions of Windows) as I really need to recreate the issue in order to investigate it.

Cheers, E

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Ed are you machining with an XCarve?

I tried a few times on an arduino loaded with GRBL 1.1 and the streaming was struggling, intermittent. I don’t know that I’ll test on an actual machine, but that shouldn’t make a difference. The gcode file did not make a difference.
@EdwardPowell Have you tried on a GRBL controlled machine?
@MarkA.Bachman Did you try running a job with vTransfer?

Hi @MarkA.Bachman, @NeilFerreri1 thanks for the replies.
Yes absolutely - XCarve (250mm) with standard XController. Grbl configured on initial setup using Easel once then VTransfer from then on.

@NeilFerreri1 do I understand correctly that you haven’t actually run a physical machine with VTransfer? Can you help me to understand your test process and what you mean by the streaming ‘struggling’? I had assumed you were reporting choppy physical movement of an X-Carve.

I made this video a few months ago for an slightly older version VTransfer in use with an Emblaser laser cutter (which is also GRBL controlled). It might still be useful for you to review as most of the intended workflow is the same, albeit that you need to probe/set the Z as well as X,Y origin. This link starts the video about 12mins in at the important bit: https://youtu.be/sIAnVvXfRk0?t=727

I will try and post a similar video using the latest VTransfer with my XCarve and XController soon.

E

Ed I have tried to place the pp for XCarve mm as my pp and now when I open VCarve I get the following warning and that pp is not available choice. How do make the XCarve mm pp available?

Hi @MarkA.Bachman,

I’m guessing that you have copied the X-Carve post into your My_PostP folder? If you do this you will also need to copy the Grbl_mm.pp file to the same location, as the X-Carve post is a mod of the core Grbl one (I’ll see if we can avoid this additional step in a future patch I think). For now though, the grbl_mm.pp file should be included in any standard install and you can get to it from File->Open Application Data Folder… then find and copy the file from the PostP folder into your My_PostP folder alongside the X-Carve one using windows file explorer.

I hope this gets you up and running.

E

Thanks Ed. Can I leave the Easel pp in that folder as well, then choose which one when saving or sending?

Yes.

Ok I have installed both those post processors and now the option to output direct to machine is there. However it still does not probe correctly.
As soon as I select ok it raises the spindle slowly about 15 mm and then alarms.
I am not convinced that VTransfer it will work with X Carve.
I am not going to change my GRBL settings so it will work with VTransfer and then not be able to use Easel.

Fair enough @MarkA.Bachman - if your existing process ain’t broke, don’t fix it :slight_smile:

I believe my Grbl settings are the defaults produced by the Easel set-up process on a brand-new X-Carve, but the behaviour you describe definitely suggests your Z axis travel is reversed. VTransfer expects -ve Z movement to be downwards. The probing cycle triggers a -50mm move in Z (G38.2 Z-50 F100). If the probe is touched within that distance then it sets Z according the the Z Touch Plate Thickness setting under Settings->Configuration File Edit Settings… The default for the X-Carve is 15mm, which was simply measured from the probe kit I received from Inventables.

Thanks for the feedback though, I think I will add a start-up test to validate the Grbl settings are as needed in the next release. I have considered it a core principle with VTransfer that it neither changes any grbl setting ‘behind the scenes’ nor modifies the g-code that is passed to it - but since it does assume certain settings, it makes sense to warn if they do not match.

Cheers

E

Edward I don’t think you understand the issue I am having.
My configuration wass also done with standard Easel on a late 2016 X Carve. To my knowledge there have been no changes that would come into play here.
When jogging with the VTransfer all axis move as they should.
I believe the issue is that VTransfer thinks contact is made immediately when the probe is plugged in and that is why it raises and alarms when activated.

I ask for any XCarve Vectric users to join in the thread and report their experience with VTransfer.

You’re right @MarkA.Bachman I did misunderstand, thanks for the clarification and I do understand the problem now. It does sound exactly as you say - the probe is triggering immediately. I guess we need to check your $6 value? And I should just confirm that your probing cycle works fine within Easel? Intriguing…

E

My probing works fine with Easel, thus my reference to not changing my grbl settings.
I really want someone else to try this on an XCarve that works fine with Easel.
Does it automatically turn on and off the router/spindle as Easel does?
I will report my $6 setting this evening when I fire it up. Let’s also compare the versions of grbl and Easel being used.
Ed I appreciate your help with this and ask if you have used VTransfer on an XCarve? I thougth there were only 500, 750, and 1000 models out there?
I struggle to understand why your XCarve would perform differently than mine does.
Is this VTransfer app part of your responsibility at Vectric?

Hi @MarkA.Bachman - Yes, I’m using VTransfer on an X-Carve I bought in the summer. It is the smallest model, which has has a machinable area of just under 300mm square I think? I guess the 500 refers the machines footprint, not its machineable area? And, yes, VTransfer is part of my responsibility at Vectric and I wrote the core code so I am well motivated to make sure it works correctly!

On this forum, and elsewhere, we regularly receive inquiries about the final step of getting the toolpaths from VCarve to the machine tool, particularly in garages with no internet connection so I released VTransfer alongside the v9.5 updates to see if we might address this issue for X-Carvers in particular.

I had assumed that the grbl set-up of XCarves would be very consistent because they are flashed by Easel, but I guess I’m learning…

E

No, there are as many different grl settings as grains of sand on a beach and users that don’t use Easel…:smiley:

The dimensions of a 500mm refer to the frame size. The frame components measure 500mm in length. I think that they should have used the work area size for labeling the different offerings. Would have caused fewer mis-understandings and angry buyers.

I can’t use VTransfer because I’m stuck with version 8.5, but I wanted to thank you for adding this feature and thank all of your coworkers’ for providing quality software to the CNC community.

I think Ed might be referring to Easel users having same configuration. Many of the grbl seting should have no effect with VTransfer but I understand some will.
And I am also very appreciative of the Vectric software and their generous updates with many added features. I believe I got my money’s worth with my purchase of VCarve Desktop.