Why add confusion with the labeling?

Hi, I have just received my x carve and got as far as putting on the very first two wheels from the “idler wheel kit”, then noted I hadn’t received V wheels … I have in fact received twelve (two packets) of “idlers”.

I would have realized this a lot quicker had the labeling and list of components on the instructions been better ???

Can I suggest for ease of the user/customer the instructions component list mirrors the labels put on parts? for example … the instructions (component list) 25281-05 T-slot nut M5 pre-assembly (insertion nut) while the label on the actual part/s states 25281-05 = M5 Pre-assembly insertion nuts???

OK I finally used the parts numbers (I don’t think this is something you even suggest) but wouldn’t it be easier to mirror the labels with the instructions component list? You have “T-slot” on the component list and not on the label … Why add confusion?

OK, I have been building what I can without the V wheels … I hope you don’t mind a bit of criticism?

The first thing I notice is that the build (at least so far) is very easy … I also note that the instructions are well thought out and comprehensive, however, as with the labeling and instruction component list there is no consistency? I should add, this shouldn’t stop a successful build, but adds time to those that are handy and may cause mistakes by those with less skill.

Take the “Nylon insert lock nut M5 19” (component list), labeled as “M5 Nylon insert lock nut 19” not as bad as some of the labeling, however does mess up a quick scan … but in the instructions (written, which I was using as apparently it is more comprehensive) it is described as a hex nut? (the eccentric nut is basically a hex nut) Although later on it is then described as a nylock and eccentric … Fortunately I double checked with the video and it says “Nylock” for the first phase (a name not used in either the component list or the label?) I worked out it mean’t nylon lock nut. But some may not …

Would it not be simpler to describe each part with a single name? Say Nylock/Eccenric nut and the rest of the info in brackets? and have the instructions both written and the video consistent with the component list and labeling?

This really could be a paint by numbers endeavor, if the numbers weren’t all in different languages :laughing:

PS … just read the headings :blush: maybe this should also be in “Assembly” rather than “Troubleshooting” ? sorry if this is the wrong category, if it is can a mod please move it to the right place please?

I do a lot of legal work, I use basic language when dealing with the public and save the clever words for those that understand … I was under the impression this was for hobbyists?

Just to add to the above … Using the term “hex” when it is not in either the parts list or on the labels is not user friendly in my opinion … I am sure some people won’t know that “hex nut” means six sided and probably even more that “eccentric nut” six sided nut isn’t a hex nut (if that is the case, as its not even clear using a dictionary).

I assume, like me, many don’t raise the issue after searching for hours, so as not to appear stupid. But not knowing a particular technical term is not stupid in my opinion … but putting someone in that position in the first place is :wink:

I accept the instructions are way better than “Engrish” and also have stated above that the instructions/videos are excellent. But I was under the impression that the "inventables welcomed feedback about shortcomings, maybe I got it wrong?

I know from personal experience that most people will struggle through even when in doubt, so I spell out anything I expect someone to do for me and assume nothing.

That no one brings up these issues is probably why I have read about a lot of people struggling (and not everyone uses this website). The actual build is so incredibly simple I find it strange that anyone could get something wrong, well at least until I read the labeling!!!

If you think it is a major problem to actually put the same terms on the parts/list as the labels and the instructions, I am obviously not going to influence your opinions.

To put this right and make it easier/quicker to build the present x carve would take about ten minutes on a printer…

I have noted many little things that are really simple (such as not indicating the screws for the stepper motor pulleys are in the pulley bag when the Socket Head Cap Screws also fit the pulleys) to make life easier for the next builder … But if people take umbrage from these issues being pointed out progress will be slow.

Note every time an issue is raised and a member takes umbrage, the next person with a problem thinks twice before mentioning it :grinning:

FWIW, I believe that such criticism / feedback is invaluable, and welcomed it when I did the instructions for the ShapeOko 2: http://docs.shapeoko.com/

Hi Willadams, without doubt if you print instructions and there is any possibility of something being misunderstood probably 50% will get it right with or without the instructions and 25% + 25% will get it right or wrong … I am sure there are tons of X carves out there with parts that fit but are in the wrong place because of labeling … I mean the eccentric nuts will fit the nylock screws and vise a versa, just the x carve won’t be optimum. And thats just one example.

I mean to put the same name on the label as the instructions isn’t such a biggy? :smiley:

That’s one of the things which I view as a step backwards — for the SO2, esp. w/ the .svg diagrams, e.g., http://docs.shapeoko.com/content/tPictures/PS20028-100.svg we were getting to a point where people would assemble the machine using a tablet to display the instructions, zooming in and highlighting parts at need.

Agree consistency in labeling is very important to reduce confusion. We did make the B.O.M. tables sortable to make verifying parts simpler: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/BOM_(SO2)

I have actually built most of what I can without the V pulleys and yes its incredibly easy to build, but I am very careful when I build and ensure that the correct parts are used at all times … That I have had to double/triple check stuff with web searches when a simple (correct/consistent) label would have saved my efforts tells me that there are probably tons of x carves out there built but with some parts/nuts/etc in the wrong places (judging by an average “lets get on with it” person).

I am sure that a team that can coordinate something as good as the x carve, shouldn’t find it too difficult to coordinate labels that match the parts list and the instructions.

I build quite a lot of stuff with and without instructions, so if I need to search I am sure there are more getting confused … but people don’t admit stuff like that. its human nature, they just live with a machine that works OK, if not optimal :smile:

WillAdams, good to see you went to the effort not to assume everyone has a knowledge of the terminologies some take for granted … Point is some craftsmen struggle with terminology, just because you can reel off a load of terms doesn’t mean you can build anything half decent :smiley:

Just to be clear Angus … when you read the list of parts it states

25253-01 Stepper Motor NEMA 17 62 oz-in 2
26054-01 Aluminum GT2 Pulley 20T 5mm 2
25285-31 Socket Head Cap Screw M3 x 8mm 8
25287-10 Flat Washer M3 8

The screws that are i n with the pulley are not obvious, I initially used the Socket head cap screws. and they were a perfect fit, but looked large … I then investigated the pulley bag and found the tiny screws in with the pulleys … Maybe I am an idiot, but I bet I am not the first or will be the last to do that :laughing: But I bet I am one of the few that would admit it :innocent: