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However, they seem to be carrying on as usual with the entire hand-held router itself, the DWP611 with all the attachments and such. So it would seem that they just don’t want people buying the motor by itself anymore, and the only market I can think of that wants to do that is the DIY CNCer folk. At least, that’s all that I could surmise from the information I have.
I keep having thoughts about hacking the DNP611 to implement automatic spindle speed control via GRBL without a SuperPID, where whatever spindle speed is set from GRBL is simply tuned to be “close enough” to the actual resultant RPM. The DNP611 bottoms out at 16k RPM and will only go as low as 5k RPM with the SuperPID, so maybe there’s some sort of physical limitation with the motor and its power curve that means it can no longer produce a useful torque below that… But I could live with that. What I can’t live with is the price of the SuperPID, and I don’t understand why nobody has figured out how to directly wire into the DNP611’s thyristor using the PWM spindle output from the arduino/GRBL in a simpler and cruder fashion that is at least usable. Thoughts?
directly wiring a thyristor is not difficult - but without proper feedback loop rpm will be very load dependent.
So you need to read the routers rpm sensor or install one of your own and a microcontroller (e.g. Arduino) doing the calculations for you (a rather simple “I” instead of PID algorithm should do the trick).
Possible but way beyond the scope of a simple weekend project.
There’s a marketable product for you! Build an add-on speed controller kit for the 611, preferably one that would let you vary it from the G-code… and you can afford another hundred X-carves! XD
Super PID replaces the built in Speed controller with an external controller. What I want is a way to modify the existing controller, so that the 1 speed setting would run the router at 6,000 rpm instead of 16,000.
However the speed dial on the router works, the goal would just be to replace that dial with a circuit that allows setting the speed via PWM output from the arduino, instead of using the expensive/complicated SuperPID. I can’t imagine that if there’s a simple little speed dial on there that it’s that difficult to do this.
I guess I’ve got a bit of a problem with purchasing tools, but I bought the 611 and even made sure to get the plunge base and fixed base. I might never remove the router from the x-carve, but I had to go with the option to buy the two bases just in case I wanted them. Both bases are still in the bag that they came with.
The speed dial is most likely a potentiometer - indeed very simple and cheap but also quite challenging to replace with something else.
The issue is: the whole circuit will most likely run at mains voltage or at least be coupled to it in a rather direct way - it is very very unlikely that you’ll find a low voltage control circuit in there that can be hooked up to an Arduino without creating lots of smoke.
What you’ll most likely need is an galvanically separated digital potentiometer. Those exist but usually for low DC voltages - not mains AC voltage.
You may be able to create one yourself e.g. as “resistor ladder DAC” with a few relais and resistors - but: if you buy a SuperPID you know what you have to pay and can be sure it works. If you try to do it yourself you’ll spend an unknown amount of money and time and may end up with a damaged router or even hurt yourself (mains voltage!)
Hi @CharlesVanNoland I think I can explain the conspiracy as I was equally confused. It turns out the router part of DNP611 is the same as the DWP611. The difference is the DNP was what Dewalt considered a service part that did not include the base where DWP included the base as @AngusMcleod pointed out. The base is not needed for the X-Carve but since it costs less to get the base we decided to give people the option to use it if they wanted to take the router out of the X-Carve.
As you know Inventables recently started selling the Dewalt with the X-Carve. In our negotiations with Dewalt I pointed out during the meeting that the DNP was more expensive on Amazon than the DWP which didn’t make sense to me because the DWP included the base and the DNP did not. The sales rep explained the DNP is a service part and the units they had in stock are made with the bases and they have to remove it to sell the DNP to us.
So the long story short is anything you are trying to do to the DNP would be identical to the DWP as far as I understand it.
CharlesVanNoland, AllenMassey, ChristianKnull, et al…How about just putting an extension arm on the existing DeWalt speed control dial and connecting that to a servo? You can buy servos for like five bucks. Better yet, because you need to turn the speed control dial through 270 degrees, carve a pair of gears on the X-Carve, one to replace the speed control dial and a larger one for the servo (most servos only can give you about 110 degrees.)
Hacking code to turn the speed control setting into a servo output is beyond my little brain, but mechanically, making a mounting bracket to attach a servo to a 611 router head should be pretty easy for anyone with the chops to run an X-Carve at all, and creating a linkage between the servo output and the potentiometer that controls the router speed should be straightforward as well.
I do know that there are digital potentiometers which I have used with Arduino to control an H-bridge in one of my hare-brained schemes a few years back. But it occurs to me that the speed control dial might not even be a pot. It could be an encoder of some kind, or a rheostat…I don’t know because I haven’t taken the end cap off my 611 to investigate.
Not that I am not curious, because obviously the discussion of speed control in this thread did draw my attention. But my X-Carve actually belongs to my employer and my (middle school) students use it most of the day. I don’t want to futz with a working machine as long as it is meeting my curriculum needs as is. But if someone does determine that simple, if rough speed control of the 611 can be accomplished with either a servo or the use of a digital pot, I will be quite interested. I think it could be accomplished pretty easily, but my higher priority is writing curriculum to take kids past Easel and into using SketchUp and MakerCam with UGS or Chilipeppr to run the machine.
Having a servo control a lever is an idea, but it’s far from being ideal, and would add extra weight to the gantry that I am already nervous about as-is, even with the series of washers/bolts mod to unify both makeslides forming the X axis.
As for what the speed dial in the 611 actually is, someone mentioned in another thread at some point that it is a pot, but it’s rated for high voltage AC, which would be hard to emulate. I can’t imagine there isn’t a simple circuit using something like a FET or something that can use a small current to control a larger current.
My goal is just having a crude speed control that would replace the speed dial itself, which I can’t imagine is all that difficult if somebody who knew what they were doing put a little effort into it. I am perfectly capable of figuring it all out on my own, but if anybody out there has any ideas as to where I should start digging around for information and ideas that would be great. I am sincerely surprised that nobody has managed something like this yet, in an effort to find a happy medium between the SuperPID and having no automated control via the arduino.
