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I use this forum for a number of reasons. Socially it is very nice to interact with other users and share experiences and both see and display projects. But of most importance to me is a source of help when I have a problem. And of equal importance is using it as a database to search for information to assist in operating my X-Carve (which I do truly love).
But the search function has been severely neutered by allowing past post to be deleted from threads. I feel the policy which affords the poster the right to retroactively have all post expunged is just wrong and does a great disservice to the remaining users.
I realize Phil Johnson became upset and decided to exit the forum. His insight will be greatly missed but that is his right. If he decides to no longer participate - fine - that is his choice. But affording the right to have all his past post deleted has caused serious damage this forum’s usefulness. Phil was a prolific poster and now there are dozens and dozens of threads that make no sense what so ever. You search for an answer and get possible hits - only find to find a confusing thread with a hodgepodge of post. After pouring over it and not understanding, you finally realize major sections are missing. It is like trying to use a dictionary that has every fifth page ripped out.
This policy needs to be changed! No one is forced to post here. As such, any post made here should become the property of the forum and therefore controlled by the forum. They need to be preserved for future use and reference. Anyone not comfortable with that rule simply shouldn’t post.
Please consider making this policy change. Searching the forum was already very tedious this has taken it to a whole new level of frustration. And yes, I realize this is not the first time this has happened but please stop this before it happens again.
As far as I am concerned, the content created by users remains under their control. If the forum moderators were concerned about the usability of content, and preservation of that valuable information on this forum, perhaps they would rethink how they go about dealing with the various situations that have lead many long-timers here to depart.
If you are interested, I believe that Phil has a website where he has posted much of what he had posted here.
While this forum was a major factor in my decision to buy an X-carve in the first place, I have not been active for a long while as it became less readily useful in finding information. As the social atmosphere has become more toxic, I have frequented it even less.
It is too bad that the search feature becomes even less useful as people have their content removed - maybe the threads that were based upon content that has been deleted should be reconstituted as pages/posts that bring forward the relevant info without all the cross talk? Seems like that might be something Inventables would consider doing to beef up info available online without relying on individuals who have put their own time and effort into helping others without any form of compensation other than the satisfaction of being helpful.
so let me get this straight, we warned people many many times that if they kept giving the veterans who created the knowledge base of the forums the gears and treating them like crap by getting upset if they wouldn’t immediately give you the answers you wanted and made you work for it,
and now he and a few others left and took their info (that was searchable on the forums the whole time people were demanding answers be provided without searching)
Now you are upset that their info is gone…well as the saying goes, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I must say I take exception to your inference that I was one of the people that that drove Phil or R Canning off the forum. PLEASE find and link any post I ever made to do anything but thank and show appreciation of their efforts.
I am not one that help create this situation BUT none the less am being punished for it. I am just asking that we that need and appreciate the content be allowed to continue using it. And I have to say I don’t get the logic of wanting your post deleted. If you don’t want them here, don’t post it in the first place.
I’ve never been a fan of wholesale removal of contributions, unless they were of a personal nature. As Ray mentioned it really does break continuity, and to my mind at least breaks with the good faith they were presented with. Ideas and advice aren’t exactly “on loan” items.
It’s probably too late to retroactively change the policy, but perhaps going forward a simple contributors statement or something along the lines of a CC statement like is used on many wiki’s?
I agree about the poster, he was just making a point. We should not take it out on him. Also I’m very surprised that someone actually used the search function instead of asking the same question over and over and over again until the answer is just given to them or they are mad no one responded to their demands.
Worst case it might be a tramming issue with the machine
Are you aware of why the term “Indian Giver” came to be, and what the social customs of the natives were that the term was originally aimed at, resulting in the term?
Here is an article about it if you are in doubt.
It does not seem unreasonable to me for the original content creators to desire to be given a certain about of decency and respect in exchange for their information, nor unreasonable for them to ask for and expect their content to be removed upon request when they have been driven off the forum by apparent unequal application of the forum guidelines.
If there is a desire to make what information is present here more permanently available, a couple of possibilities include starting a wiki in parallel to this forum, and changing the moderating of the forum so that other valuable resources of information are not driven away.
That’s a fair example, and I’d be the last to begrudge someone the ability to remove it… I only think a blanket “remove all” (figurative) button seems a bit much
Another aspect of this which hasn’t been discussed yet is the emerging “right to be forgotten”, which is working its way through the various countries’ legal systems. The Europeans are far ahead of the US in this new concept and at present (to the best of my knowledge) the US has no legal guidelines concerning this concept.
[EDIT] Just noticed that the category is set for “Easel->Feature Requests”. Probably should be changed to meta.
I wouldn’t think anything as drastic as losing rights would be necessary. I am more of the mind that it should be the posters right/responsibility to remove content they wish retracted, but I do get how onerous a task it might be.
So I’ve been away from the forum for awhile, looks like I missed all the fireworks! In any case here’s my take, Phil donate a lot of time and information to the forum, for whatever reason he or any of the others left was there choice. I’ve yet to see anyone permanently band (who knows I could be wrong). As far as past content goes, I think any member or ex member should have the right to delete any piece of IP they wish to, BUT yes I believe that user should have to delete each post themselves. If this were the case as it is on most forums, as clear heads prevailed, most would delete there personal photos or plans for things they may have posted, but to delete info that can help others would be a childish thing to do and not something I see someone as big a poster as Phil would of taken. Remember these members chose to leave, not forced to and if Inventables is going to do a blanket erase, The post of which the member started should at least go with it to keep the voids that are left to a minimum. In any case the forum lost a wealth of information that was there for the taking, perhaps an overhaul of moderators or rules of the forum are needed or maybe it will just wind up forcing the company to enlarge there customer service as you can be sure there will be a lot less answers available on the forum, but the bad news there is that would mean prices go up! Everything in life comes at a price and information is usually the most expensive…
How much of the content there has been updated based upon developments and info found here? How clear is it that the content there also applies to the X-carve? I’m not knocking it - I have spent very little time there, as I have not had reason to go searching for answers recently, and those that I had earlier on were well answered here.
As always, search (google or otherwise) makes a very good friend for finding answers.
If people would stop provocing me the way Angus tried to do here, I wouldn’t be involved in much drama. And to be honest I don’t want to be involved in any of it. I’m not one to hate. Sorry to see newer members go along with that without knowing the full story.
