I also got an Email from jenn at suckit that asked me if I still wanted to test their new unit as I have been after them for a long time to create a new version for people who have purchased aftermarket longer,wider Z axis’s. If it wasn’t for Kyle Kranyak’s efforts this wouldn’t have come to pass because he sent them his design and provided them with a prototype. This is a major step up in the evolution of the X-Carve.
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I did as well. My standard suckit boot has been through the wringer. Im sure this one will rock too. I agree that having an affordable drop in z replacement and boot is a great step forward for those who want more from their xcarve without the trial and error and expense of fabrication.
thanks @KyleKronyak. I’m keen to buy one when I know you get all the kinks ironed out.
I have the dewalt 611. I love the black color, and I shudder at the thought of putting silver aluminum on my x-carve. I’d rather support users of our own forum than random ebay folks.
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Any feedback from those who have completed install in regards to rigidity improvements?
I’ve done a couple of quick test cuts but I haven’t exactly put it through an optimal test to demonstrate the rigidity improvement. I feel like it’s more rigid than stock if I grab the spindle and muscle it side to side by hand, but that’s extremely subjective, and of course I can’t do a side-by-side comparison. I’m open to suggestions…
In other news, while I know that most people here are waiting for the new SuckIt dust boot to come out, I was pleased to confirm that my prototype dust boot mounting brackets are in fact compatible with the new Z axis:
Next I plan to cut new final copies of the brackets from cast acrylic, which is something that came out fairly poorly when I tried with the stock Z-axis due to deflection, so maybe that will be a decent test of the new Z.
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Anyone get a video of it during operation?
So - I only just noticed this tonight after trying to carve something with a small bit, which naturally isn’t very long; all of my initial test cuts were done with a much longer 1/4" bit…
This Z-axis sits flush with the bottom of the X carriage, which offers maximum clearance, but if you’re using a DeWalt router as a spindle it means that the lowest Z height you can reach puts the collet about 1.5" above the wasteboard assuming stock X-Carve geometry.
In this picture I have about a 1" stackup of material and my 1/8" bit doesn’t quite reach the surface. Note that my Y rails are raised 1/2" with respect to stock, so an unmodified X-Carve would put the bit 1/2" lower.
This is a significant difference from the stock Z axis, which goes low enough to touch the wasteboard even with relatively short end mills (as evidenced by the 1/8" wide scars on my wasteboard in the lower left corner). I guess that this means that I’m going to have to stack up more than 1" of scrap beneath my workpiece just to achieve full engagement with my 1/8" bits.
While I’m at it, here’s a picture with the Z axis raised to the home position. With the router as a spindle, the clearance is obviously much longer than any realistic router bit:
Those of you with long VFD spindles like in Kyle’s original picture in Post #1 of this thread, that can set the spindle to pretty much any height, should not be limited by this; for those of us using router spindles, this may be a useful data point to be aware of.
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@EvanDudzik Have you tried pusing the spindle all the way down in the holder? It won’t get very short bits all the way to the bottom but it should give you another 10-12mm based on your photo. I have pretty much exclusively used 6mm / 0.25" bits in my machine, usually I mount a vise to the table for small parts requiring very small bits. As for the seemingly excessive Z clearance, the idea behind this as outlined previously was to allow for the use of drill bits which wouldn’t normally fit and being able to drill to the full top clearance.
I think you are cemented in your opinion and experience so far. But wouldn’t this most recent discovery with the z axis reaching downward be the same on a linear z-axis from eBay?
No, it wouldn’t. The Cnc4newbie 5" to 6" unit has two places on the router mount plate so you can choose either 5"'s of drop or 6"'s of drop simply by moving the plate up or down to the desired set of mounting holes.
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Plus, it also has mounting holes on the back plate so you can move the whole assembly up or down.
I just did a fit check with the DWP611. Please see the attached photos. With a 2mm ball end mill (1/8" shank) in a pretty typical stick-out (about 1/2" in the collet) the bottom of the end mill was about 10mm or so above the bed. A 1/2" (12.7mm) parallel is shown for reference. Keep in mind the bed on my machine is 1/4" aluminum instead of the 1/2" nominal (measured 13.5mm with caliper) MDF in the normal kit.
Fair point. I normally run my DeWalt with it rotated as I had pictured, so that the controls are on the left and are visible from in front of the machine - but that means it can’t bottom out in the mount. It’s on my to-do list to someday take my spindle mount to a machine shop and rabbet the middle of the top edge to give the router enough clearance to bottom out over a much larger range of rotation.
I rotated it and bottomed it out and do in fact get a good amount lower as a result.
Here it is next to a piece of roughly 3/4" stock; I notched the stock and measured and it’s about 15.5mm from the wasteboard.
I’m not a veteran machinist so anyone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I always run with the minimum stick-out unless I have a specific need to go longer due to material geometry - i.e. I insert the bit until the smooth part of the shank is just about fully inserted, with the base of the flutes just a bit below the collet. Just mentioning it since your photo seems to show several mm more stickout than that, and i’m not certain if my concern is fully founded.
[quote=“KyleKronyak, post:297, topic:36179”]the bottom of the end mill was about 10mm or so above the bed. A 1/2" (12.7mm) parallel is shown for reference. Keep in mind the bed on my machine is 1/4" aluminum instead of the 1/2" nominal (measured 13.5mm with caliper) MDF in the normal kit.
[/quote]I’m not sure about the other sizes and/or the older model of the X-Carve, but for the 1000mm model, according to the drawing 30300-03 in the x-carve grabcad repository, the stock wasteboard is 3/4" nominal thickness, which is the same as my (custom) wasteboard.
Also Kyle, is the Z unit you tested the DWP611 on above representative of the first batch of production units (such as mine) regarding the spindle mount holes? (i.e. the spindle mount is sitting 3mm high relative to the faceplate of the Z carriage)
So running the numbers a little bit more, if mine is bottoming out with this bit at 15.5mm, then someone with stock-height Y rails and a 3/4" wasteboard should theoretically be able to get down to about 3mm from the surface with the same bit/stickout. That gets it into a better ballpark, where you could use cheap 1/4" MDF as a backer board and be able to cut the material to full depth. Really tiny, short bits would still need a little more help.
In my case I guess with the router bottomed out, I will be able to use 3/4" MDF as a backer, which is still reasonably cheap.
I like the plate, that’s what I had in mind.
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Yes, I made new Y rail end plates that raise them (and thus the gantry) by 1/2". I agree that this Z design won’t get me there without changing one or more things. I’m considering my options:
- I can go back to stock Y rail height
- I can work on machining an adapter plate like the one you drew up
- I could chuck the stock spindle mount in a vertical mill and shave down the top of the clamp - taking it down to just above the top clamping screw would be simplest but wouldn’t get me quite all the way there; if I forfeit that hole and drill/tap a new one lower down, I could go more than low enough to reach my wasteboard.
So far I kind of like option #3 because there are other modifications I would already like to make to my spindle clamp while I’m at it anyway, and it doesn’t have the same compromises as #1 (less max Z working height) and #2 (more overhang due to spacing the spindle further from the X carriage)
Of course, someday I’ll upgrade to a VFD spindle and this will be a moot point, but I’m not ready to take the plunge on that just yet.
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@EvanDudzik I am going to make a series of mounting plates which allow for overlap of the lower mounting bracket. Part of my original design philosophy was to have the spindle anchored firmly to the carriage frame for maximum rigidity. It should be possible to make a drop-in replacement plate with more than adequate support though. I will send these to existing customers at no cost.
I am thinking a 30mm negative Z offset should allow plenty of headroom for this? Let me know what you think!
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@KyleKronyak - have you received the prototype of the suckit yet? I wonder if this offset mounting plate will interfere. That might change the calculus.
@RichWood I haven’t received one yet. The only issue I could imagine would be if it doesn’t extend low enough, but that would be an issue regardless of the style of axis assembly used.
@PhilJohnson this is possible but would be quite expensive – I did look into those types of rails and bearings for my design early on but considered them impractical. If you are going this route it probably makes sense to greatly increase the rigidity of the rest of the machine. At some point it may make more sense to simply design a whole new machine.
Did you buy a zplunge or are you here to market your own potential project and make snide and condescending comments? How about keeping a good decorum and being constructive?
There is no reason for this thread to go off the rails. Kyle has made a few comments sure, but he’s also righting mistakes at his expense. As someone who has invested in good faith, what more could we ask for?
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