VFD and Air cooled spindle

Wow, looks great.

How did you go abouts hooking up the speed control to the vdf? It looks like something I would like to do in the future.

I just got my VFD/Spindle today and I’m wondering the same thing.

You guys can use this manual to answer all the VFD questions you might have. It is very well written in English and have every command covered. The speed pot settings and terminal break out if also listed.

I’m looking to upgrade to the VFD and 0.8kW Air cooled spindle (I’d rather not deal with water cooling). Seems like the link WilliamBedingfield posted is for a pretty good price, but it’s still 220V. The transformer listed seems pretty expensive and potentially unnecessary. All these VFDs look similar on the outside, and at least the capacitors in the 220V version should be rated for 120V.

Is there any chance the 220V can run on 120V with appropriate settings change? Would this result in less power available?

@KyleJacobs I’m pretty sure you can. There are quite a few settings, see this post:

Page 14 and onward

Thanks for pointing out the link. There are quite a number of variables in the controller, ranging from the obvious output voltage settings to the PID values for frequency tracking, which may be different at 110V. Can someone post a full list of their parameters for a 220V and 110V system?

Here are the variables which I think might need tweaking:

PD008, PD009, and PD010 (Output Voltage settings)
PD137 (Wakeup voltage level)
PD141 and PD142 (Motor voltage / current rating)
PD146 (Motor No-load Current)
PD147 (Motor Slip Compensation)
PD156, PD157, PD158 (PID values)

Thanks

You have to have a match the VFD unit to your input voltage. There is not a way to use a 220V input VFD with a 110V standard household input by just changing a setting. You need to match the input voltage for what voltage you intend to use. You can use a setup transformer to convert your 110V into 220V (which is what the 110 VFD does in the first place). I use this type of system to power 2 220 VFD systems in my mill room inside my house and it has worked perfectly for a number of months now and I have milled for 6+ hours on both systems at the same time with no issues.

If you will give a call to the guys over at http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/contact they will be VERY happy to help find the VFD that will best suit your needs and they will talk with you about the differences between the 110 and the 220V VFD units and spindles.

I wish it was as simple as changing the settings on the units but 98% of the spindle run on 3 phase 220V. The VFD takes in either the supply voltage and converts it to 2 phase 220V to run the spindle. There are a FEW RARE 110V SPINDLES out there. But they are extremely rare and I only know of one person using one.

If you need help with settings after you get yours I will be glad to check the settings in question on my unit and rely the setting back to you. Switching to my .8KW water cooled unit has been one of the best thing i did for the X Carve after switching to DSP drivers and a Planet CNC controller.

Thanks I might try out the 220V with the transformer then.

For the transformer, you linked to the 5kW version. Do you think this is necessary for a 0.8kW spindle or would the cheaper (and lighter) 2kW or 3kW versions suffice? The product description recommends using no more than 67% the rating, which for the 5kW one would still be over 3kW.

I run more than one 220V item off the transformer at a time so for me I needed the headroom to make sure i did not damage anything. I use the 1.5KW VFd and the 2.2KW VFD on the same unit without issue.

I have a 110 volt VFD from http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/ and it works fine. I have a water cooled 800 watt spindle and I am very happy with the setup. Don’t be concerned with the water aspect, for me it was a matter of running a few hoses and a pump into a fish bowl.

Is there a difference in how the spindle operates when using a 220V inverter (with 110V/220V stepup) compared with using a 110V inverter?

@WilliamBedingfield, Did you use the Dewalt 611 spindle mount for your 0.8kw air cooled spindle? If so, did you have to shim it a lot?

I contacted automation technologies and was only told that “both the 110V and 220V can control the spindle”. However, I’m interested in knowing what differences (if any) there are between the output to the spindle from the 110V and 220V inverters. Does the spindle operate exactly the same with either inverter?

95% of the VD spindles run on 3 phase 220V. There are a FEW that run on 110V TO the spindle… Someone on here has one and it was the first time I ever saw one. In simple terms the 11V VFD converts the 110V to 220V 3 phase output. A 220V VFD does the same but starts with the 220V single phase. I am not an EE so I can not go into the deep how and why of converting 110V to 220 3 phase in a VFD. Bart Ding went into detail about it on one of the treads, but overall the 110V VFDs will drive the .8KW spindle just fine for everything the X Carve can handle. http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/ is run by one great guy and he really goes out of his way to make sure you have everything you need if you will email or call him up. They ship really fast and package everything very well. If you are based the the USA then I would HIGHLY suggest considering their products for upgrade and the like.

I have recently got one of these here in the UK… I’m seriously struggling with it, although I have had it running and cutting on my X-Carve, it was producing lots and lots of interference, it affected my stepper motor operation, my mains tester said the motor casing and X-Carve chassis is live, which really freaked me out, eventually I had to pluck up the courage to touch it and see just how live it was, and it wasn’t, then to top the lot it began to hinder my wifi connection, so temporary fix I dropped my Makita router in and wow I should have just used that from word go, My X-Carve has really manned up, Wow its brilliant, reluctant to go back to VFD & spindle… Unless someone can help me out I think I’ll be selling it and sticking with the makita…
Appreciate anyone’s thoughts…

Did you order it off of EBay? It sounds like you got a bum unit there for sure. EMI is not uncommon on these units if they are bad. Did you use shielded cables and are your cable shields grounded on the controller side only as they should be? Also how did you run the power cable to the Spindle fro the VFD? Does it run next to the motor cables? if you do this and are not using a shielded and grounded spindle power cable and your stepper cables are not also shielded and have their shielded grounded on the controller side, then you will see EMI issues.

Thanks for your detailed response, I appreciate your thoughts…
Yes I did buy the unit from eBay, It was meant to be from a seller in Portsmouth but the unit came from Germany, poss drop shipped, although a very quick 48 Hour service.
Yes I did use shielded cable on from VFD to spindle, its grounded at the VFD via the shielding and at the motor end the shielding is clamped to the motor plug.
My stepper motors are also using the shielded cable that they are supplied with from Inventables.
The shielded power cable to the motor runs up and across the ceiling of my workshop dropping down to the spindle, where as my stepper motor cables run from a shelf below the CNC and up to steppers, so plenty of distance between cables…
Cheers

I am buying a VFD spindle from automationtechnologiesinc.com (this one specifically: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle/800w-air-cooled-cnc-milling-spindle-kl-800a). It says its 65mm OD, as I’ve seen that’s what’s recommended, but its not clear if my existing mount will work, or if I need the new dewalt 611 mount. I have the 24v spindle that came with whole kit that I got about 5 months ago - before they discontinued that spindle and started recommending the dewalt 611.

Will that original spindle mount work with the 65mm VFD?

You’ll need a different mount.

There are a few options here. You can use the Inventables 611 mount with a shim of styrene or a shim of aluminum. This is what Inventables did with their 800w air cooled spindle and it is what I have done with my Makita (also 65mm).
https://www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve-dewalt-611-spindle-mount

You could also go with this spindle mount found here if you want to make it yourself:

Or if you want to order one @JohnScherer is making and selling them here:

Hope that helps some.

3 Likes

Like @sketch42 mentioned, I did the shimming technique with the dewalt 611 mount. It took 2 layers of the styrene we sell in the store https://www.inventables.com/technologies/styrene-sheet fits like a champ.

You can also 3D print mounts (I think @Travelphotog did this for his x-carve). I wouldn’t cut them yourself out of aluminum (if you were leaning towards that option). Unfortunately lots of things can go wrong when cutting thick aluminum like that on the stock machine and you can end up with a mount that isn’t square. I know from experience :smile: